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by darylehret on 22 July 2012 - 00:10
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Say it isn't so.  I'm completely shocked molly would do such a thing.

by EuroShepherd on 22 July 2012 - 00:18
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Video won't work for me

Thomas, one of your earlier posts you asked if the title of this thread was about molly or tim.  It's about tim, it started with him and his mystery rottweiler and then evolved into the tim and molly fiasco with the poor rescue GSD.  Perhaps we can consider the title to be about both tim and molly individually though, huh? 
by Littlebit on 22 July 2012 - 02:17
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Its funny that Molly has made judgements of so many others..And isn't she on the BOI of USCA....LMAO

Jodi McCaw


 

by Pharaoh on 22 July 2012 - 04:40
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I think they make a rather nice couple, don't you think?



They could go into business together, so many of the same talents and interests.

      

There is a great demand for services, inexpensive euthanasia, dog rescue and perhaps, amateur surgery.

The future is boundless for those with the nerve.

by maywood on 22 July 2012 - 12:40
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@Steve & DobermanMan

I’m sorry, but Gene England’s methods are ancient history and are now considered indicative of someone who has no clue of what really makes a dog tick.  You guys are stuck in the past if you think this is a proper form of dog training these days.   I do believe guys like Bernhard Flinks, Ivan Balabanov, and Michael Ellis have pretty much revolutionized dog training in America over the past 2 decades with much more humane and motivational techniques.  That table training crap appears to be a form of animal abuse nowadays and what kills me most is Gene England is still promoting it to this day in his seminars from what I understand.  Now maybe his tracking system had some merit but this guy has just not kept up with the times at all and is still trying to justify these clearly outdated techniques.

If you guys need to bag on Molly, why aren’t you placing your emphasis on the fact she was considering euthanizing a perfectly fine GSD?  For me, I can’t comprehend how this thought is even in the realm of possibility based on the videos EuroShepherd posted earlier.  But then again, it seems you guys don’t really have respect for animals so I suppose that probably wouldn’t occur to you.

To expect everyone here to agree with you based on the video your promoting is simply ludicrous.  As far as I’m concerned, Molly was spot on in her assessment in this case.
by darylehret on 22 July 2012 - 17:50
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why aren’t you placing your emphasis on the fact she was considering euthanizing a perfectly fine GSD?
 

Seems it would depend on your definition of "perfectly fine" and your opinion of which option was more humane.  Lest anyone forget, there were MORE than two choices, btw.
by Dobermannman on 22 July 2012 - 20:19
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Maywood

WTF are you? What's your name and what is your experience?
The video that Steve posted is fifteen? years old and was of a Police dog, not a pet.
He was PUSHED off a long table...........that's it ! I don't know where you get abusive from?
Gene England can read a dog better then anyone alive, inclluding Flinks and Balabanov and Ellis.
I've been to seminars with all four of the individuals you mentioned, have you? Ellis is my favorite current trainer.
I had Michael do his first seminar in Colorado at my Schutzhund cllub (Denver Area Working Klub) must be
12 years ago. I've been to several Balabanov seminars and until Ellis started putting out DVD's Ivan was the
best there was. I still look at Ivan's DVD's now.

Re: "TableTraining Crap"
Have you ever seen Gene England work a dog on a table? Or are you just regurgitating something you read on the internet or that Molly Graft told you?

Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
by Dobermannman on 22 July 2012 - 20:23
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Its funny that Molly has made judgements of so many others..And isn't she on the BOI of USCA....LMAO

Jodi McCaw

>Jodi


>Molly Graft is great at judging others. It's accepting responsibility for her own actions where she has a problem.
>That and making erxcuses for her friends and people in power :-(

Thomas Barriano
by maywood on 23 July 2012 - 01:33
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Well, I’m not necessarily the braggart type nor do I feel it is necessary to leave my name and resume everywhere I go to have a decent conversation on dog training.  I assure you I have done my fair share of training all types of dogs over the past 30 years now and have pretty much seen it all.  Wouldn’t even be here leaving my comments if I didn’t as I am quite confident I can hold my own.

In this forum it’s all about the words and ideas being expressed that matter the most not who the person is you happen to be communicating with.  I personally don’t care who you are and what you’ve done as long as you can maintain a descent conversation as this is what matters the most.  Making sense and helping others with the written word is golden in this forum.  One could have all the titles in the world but that doesn’t necessarily mean they will do well in being able to communicate their ideas to others.

In fact, I prefer talking to individuals who DO NOT leave their name and resume as I have found those that do usually have an agenda to fill of some sort and are not communicating in a completely truthful manner.  Wouldn’t surprise me at all you were merely trying to score brownie points with Mr. England by leaving your name and resume in your last post.  It is now questionable to me if you were speaking truthfully or not because of this.  I actually believe leaving a name and resume ruins one’s credibility to a certain degree in this forum.  It’s the anonymous ones I trust the most because they have nothing to gain or lose and hence are usually speaking the most truthfully about what they know or don’t know.

Anyway, as far as table training goes, one thing common sense ought to tell you is one doesn’t need to see anyone train a dog up on a table in a most unnatural state to know it isn’t a sound dog training method.   Especially since the 3 pioneers mentioned earlier have shared their secrets with the rest of the world and have made it pretty obvious that kind of stuff isn’t necessary any more.  Motivational training is the only way to go nowadays and anything else is ancient history imo.  Now you may have been to a thousand seminars for all I care but if you think pushing a dog off a table and slamming him into an adjacent wall isn’t a form of abuse than you really haven’t learned anything from these 3 truly great dog trainers.

Oh, and to stay on topic, Molly, shame on you and everyone else who thinks it’s OK to euthanize a perfectly fine GSD.   The only time I can think of where this may be necessary is for obvious health reasons or they have bitten a child.  That’s pretty much how I see it anyway.  If you come on here and tell me that dog has bitten a child and show a little proof then I might forgive you for thinking that but based on the videos I saw earlier I find it very hard to believe that dog bit anyone that didn’t probably deserve it.  Especially after watching how Tim was handling her with his most unusual methods.
by Dobermannman on 23 July 2012 - 02:38
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Maywood

You are full of BS.
I don't need any brownie points with Mr England
The best advise is from anonymous trolls? BWAHAHAHA
No wonder there are so few people who actually trian and title their dogs on the PDB.

To get back on topic.
The dog wasn't "perfectly fine" the dog has issues which are NOT going to be cured by Timmy.
If Molly Graft wasn't going to take the responsibility to place the dog with a competent, responsible handler she should have put it down. NOT done the Pontius Pilate thing and washed her hands of it.

Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
by maywood on 23 July 2012 - 22:33
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You know for someone who leaves his name and resume everywhere he goes as if he is some kind of bad ass dog trainer you sure seem to have a hard time explaining your world class dog training skills on the PDB.  If I’m so full of BS then let’s see what you got.  Please tell us all how table training is a much better method then those presented by the true dog trainer extraordinaires I mentioned earlier.   Stun us all with your brilliant dog training acumen because I highly doubt you’re even capable of doing that.

Also, please explain yourself a little more in how the shepherd mentioned earlier had “issues”.  What "issues" did she seem to have that you failed to point out?  Do you believe these "issues" justified euthanizing her?  Furthermore, If you’re going to bag on “Timmy” what makes you any better than him.  Seems to me your just jumping on the bandwagon with no follow up whatsoever. 

I mean, you have added nothing whatsoever to this conversation except for a whole lot of chest thumping.  Oh, and of course your name and resume, thank you for nothing “Tommy”.
by Dobermannman on 23 July 2012 - 22:43
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I"m done feeding the troll.
If you want to continue then use a real name and a little back ground
Molly Graft said the dog had issues.
The videos that Tim H posted speak for themselves

Thomas Barriano
by maywood on 23 July 2012 - 23:17
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Feeding the Trolls?  WTF is that suppose to mean?  You haven’t fed anything at all.  If there are any trolls here it is you since you have done nothing but a whole lot of chest thumping.   What’s the matter “Tommy” you having a hard time explaining yourself?  Little harder than it looks isn’t it.  Well at least you didn’t leave your resume this time but you still might get a pat on the head at your next seminar since you left your name.  I would suggest you just stick to dog training in your own little world and stay off the PDB as you definitely are incapable of expressing any new ideas at all.
by Dobermannman on 23 July 2012 - 23:27
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Posts: 590
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Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I
by Bob McKown on 23 July 2012 - 23:30
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Maywood:

 Issues

                   In Molly,s own words the dog was a bitter and not safe around children! I,d concider that a real serious Issue would,nt you? The last thing the breed needs is another story of a dog (this time a shepherd)  tearing someone up. The dog bit 2 of her kennel help obviously you did,nt take time to read the thread. So much of a issue that she had a written agreement of liability of release over it. So I would say the issues are very real or the several evaluators that the dog supposidley had were idiots and so is Molly,s kennel help?.

 I,m no fan of Thomas Barriano but to compare him to Tim Helser is uncalled for Helser is a thief,conartist, and a black mark on the working dog world he is truly a boil on the ass of dog sports. One only has to contact the Brookville police dept and ask for issue,s with Helser and they will gladly give you information matter of fact there actually happy he moved to Springfield.   


Tim Helser actually told people that he was working in conjunction with the FBI in the Stacey Peterson case of a missing girl in Chicago even flashing a badge that said special investigator people actually gave this putz money.

 I,m just taken back by a trusted member of the dog world that would so easly and uneffected in giving this known creatin a dog and with the temperment to say oh well it,s not my problem any more. To me this shows lack of character and compassion.


 I don,t care who you are Maywood but when one does not have the guts to back up there opinion with there name it also says alot about there character.     
 


   
by Steve Leigh on 24 July 2012 - 00:25
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A few messages back, the "dog training training genius" - MAYWOOD - claimed:

Now you may have been to a thousand seminars for all I care but if you think pushing a dog off a table and slamming him into an adjacent wall isn’t a form of abuse

I INVITE ANYBODY, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME - to watch that video.  PLEASE TELL ME WHEN THE DOG WAS "SLAMMED INTO AN ADJACENT WALL". 

All I ask is the minute and the second when this (never) happened in the video.

Unknown to the "genius", the long table was screwed to the floor at exactly 40" from the wall - to PREVENT any dog from hitting the wall.  (We were not born this morning, "genius".)   

WMP (Windows Media Player) has a SLOW MOTION and a FRAME BY FRAME option (under "Enhancements").  Please find and use them.

The dog's TAIL barely touched the wall - he was NOT "slammed into a wall". 
THINGS LIKE THAT WERE NOT EVER ALLOWED AT MY TRAINING SCHOOL.

Just like Molly Graf, 
That is a challenge.  PROVE the truth, and I will publicly apologize - right here. 
I have the dignity to admit when I'm wrong - and I will not hesitate to apologize - IF YOU ARE BEING TRUTHFUL.

Steve Leigh
signature link removed by admin















Edited by Steve Leigh on Tue Jul 24, 2012 03:01 am :: AGENDA GAMES
by gsdDanny01 on 24 July 2012 - 02:21
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Timothy Helser in the RAW!! Here I am speaking my mind for once and for all!!!

Here is "Cribs...Pedigree Database Style"! I offered for all of you to come over to my home and no one wanted to take me up on the offer. Instead you keep judging me, so here it is...my home and kennel as it is today and everyday!

Please watch all of the videos. I lay all of this on the line for all of you. I know this is very long but please watch all of it and judge for yourself. Anyone can write things online, but here I am showing you in video my dogs' paper work and where and how I got each dog, my home, dogs, kennel, yard, cars, and yes MY thoughts on everything!!!!!! If you don't want to see all of the videos then please jump down to just the house and kennel tour videos and see video of my home, dogs and kennel as they are today!

FYI...I do give raw opinions on Bob, Molly and a few select other people.


Video 1            http://youtu.be/eJvqnpAIdfE
 
Video 2            http://youtu.be/oYLaWcOZ5mg
 
Video 3            http://youtu.be/Gbws5qGn_pY
 
Video 4            http://youtu.be/ESwcaMskMuA
 
Video 5            http://youtu.be/JFNMA0Q1EzQ
 
Video 6            http://youtu.be/wzXRX4FK2Fo
 
Video 7            http://youtu.be/wU9_Zo00xTM
 
Video 8            http://youtu.be/-2AOFxOz4Xg
 
Video 9            http://youtu.be/rlfOcWSv5vg
 
Video 10          http://youtu.be/bPuthTFnC38
 
Video 11          http://youtu.be/ulQ3Y-BdVOU
 
Video 12          http://youtu.be/dZFCJQSlKfo
 
House & Kennel Tour 1           http://youtu.be/d5nG9ZeYPxY
 
House & Kennel Tour 2           http://youtu.be/drVFKaDNS2M
 
House & Kennel Tour 3           http://youtu.be/wqkGFCb7LlU
 
House & Kennel Tour 4           http://youtu.be/78JxfJZrjFk
 
Personal Message from Timothy Helser to Nicole          http://youtu.be/r8qOSAF3agE
 
Personal Message from Timothy Helser to Lyle Roetemeyer, USCA President
http://youtu.be/uANdq-h1MFk
 
 
 
by maywood on 24 July 2012 - 04:21
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Well Bob, as far as I’m concerned, I don’t really have a problem with a dog that bites adult human beings because usually that is a result of mishandling on the part of the adult.  In almost all cases I have seen or heard of this happening it’s almost always due to mishandling of the dog.   However, I do have a problem with a dog that is incapable of distinguishing between Adult human beings and children.  A good GSD should be able to make this distinction and it’s the ones that can’t I got a real problem with.  In the videos posted earlier there was no indication this was the case since she was being walked by a little girl.  And yes, I did read the posts thoroughly enough to note that her kennel help were the ones that were bitten but I am sure this was more than likely a result of mishandling on their part and they probably deserved it.  Certainly not a good enough reason to put a perfectly good dog down imo.  She did say in the post the dog was spayed so I have a sneaky suspicion this may be the real reason she wants to put the dog down since she won’t be able to earn any money from her but that is just a guess on my part.  I really don’t know the whole story yet as do any of you.

I am not comparing Tim and Tom at all.  I was just a little miffed by Tom’s lack of respect for his fellow dog man and the PDB is all really.  I personally don’t know much about Tim Helser to truthfully comment on whether he is a good or bad guy.  I know he has pissed off a lot of people for sure and from what I have seen in the videos his methods are awfully strange but he is a fellow dog man and we must keep this in mind.  At least he is trying to train dogs, learn about them and come up with maybe new ways of doing it.  You have to at least respect that on some level I think.  Until I see otherwise I guess I’m just going to have to stay neutral on this part of the topic.  I will admit I haven’t had time to read all of the links concerning Tim Helser yet so I’m a little uneducated at this point.  I do see his most recent post above so I’ll eventually get to them too.

I think I have addressed the name or no name issue well enough in a previous post.  But keep in mind, none of us are truly anonymous here.  The PDB and several well known people in the GSD world know exactly who Maywood is.  If you need to find out who I am it really isn’t that hard.  I’m just not going to do your homework for you is all.  But I do believe it is much more prudent to maintain a certain amount of anonymity as there are many kooks out there waiting to seize on the opportunity to cause problems for you.  And since I am only here to talk dogs and help others with their dogs let’s just say I don’t need the headache.

Speaking of kooks, does this mean I get my own web page on your prestigious website Steve?  Since I’m now considered a liar an all?  Or do you have to know the persons actual name before you give that distinct honor.  OK, maybe I embellished the story a little with the “slamming against the wall” statement, but don’t you think calling me a liar is going a wee bit overboard.   Anyway, fact still remains you guys are physically manhandling the dog which is clearly an old and outdated form of dog training.  And also it’s painfully obvious in that video your attitude towards dogs just stinks!  I don’t like it and it’s just my opinion for better or worse.  I'm sure you can handle it.
by Pharaoh on 24 July 2012 - 05:28
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Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 01:35 am
Defintely, a matched set.

    

by Steve Leigh on 24 July 2012 - 05:39
Steve Leigh

Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:25 am
The Maywood  wrote:

Speaking of kooks, does this mean I get my own web page on your prestigious website Steve? 

Nope.  You don't rate

Since I’m now considered a liar an all?

Well, this is simple: did you LIE or tell the TRUTH?

OK, maybe I embellished the story a little with the “slamming against the wall” statement,

Can't ADMIT that you LIED?  Nope - in your dishonest world it's "embellished".  Do you apologize?  No.  Do you retract?  No. 

Do you even have the DIGNITY, the SELF-RESPECT to write, "I thought I saw .... and I was mistaken"?  NOPE.


but don’t you think calling me a liar is going a wee bit overboard.

Nope.  I call Mals "Malinois", GSDs "German Shepherd Dogs", and LIARS LIARS
So did we (just yes or no will suffice) "slam the dog against a wall"?  All you have to write is "YES" or "NO". 
No, we didn't.  The video clearly shows that. 
 


Anyway, fact still remains you guys are physically manhandling the dog which is clearly an old and outdated form of dog training.

OK - whatever you say.  Please show me (us) several videos of YOU preparing a dog for USPCA certification.  I want to see HOW it's done.  I'm willing to LEARN from you - if you have anything to learn FROM.  Do you know what USPCA is?

And also it’s painfully obvious in that video your attitude towards dogs just stinks!

As usual, YOU'RE RIGHT.  Hot dogs, reward, praise, and kisses STINK

I don’t like it

Do you really think I care?

and it’s just my opinion for better or worse.

Much worse than you realize.

I'm sure you can handle it.

Yes, I could handle  like you in the early 1980s. 

VIDEO LINK:  www.sl-prokeys.com/wffcw/mg_liar.htm - link is near the BOTTOM of the page.

This is NOT a website link.  It is a link to a TABLE TRAINING VIDEO file.

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