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sl-prokeys was born April 5, 1995


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On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 2:45pm, my wife of 34 years, Rebecca, died in my arms in an emergency room.

The last words we spoke were in perfect synchronization: "I love you with all my heart."

 

 

Slammin Sam Tries Steve On For Size

 

The cowboy I referred to on the first page is Slammin Sam - the Rodeo Man.  Recently, meaning in the last few days, Slamo (I adapted his name in response to my name "Steve" which he adapted to "Stevo") has tried to match wits with me on a public message list.  That was Slamo's mistake. 

 

I'm not livestock or one of his pitbulls - - I can think and reason.  And Slamo can't make the videos lie.

 

Slamo has a lot of trouble with the English language, as you'll see.  He also makes no sense.  Beyond that, he babbles on incessantly about everything imaginable - except rodeo abuse, cruelty, blatant rule breaking, livestock death, maiming, and the issues I've made statements about when I wrote the first RODEO page.

 

This type of back-and-forth amounts to absolutely nothing.  Slamo can't discuss a single subject, because his mind can't focus on a single subject.  That's why he's so good at "baffle 'em with blindness!".  He certainly baffled me once, but I doubt he'll ever do it again.

 

Meanwhile - Slammin Sam still has no balls for a videotaped debate, no direct discussion about direct issues.  Typical, expected behavior for a RODEO COWBOY.  Every one of them appears to be TERRIFIED of a public debate with just ONE man - Steve Hindi.

 

I made my statements blue, for easier reading.

Slamm Wonders About Stevo
IP: 71.251.113.209
Posted on December 23, 2007 at 03:30:20 PM by Steve Leigh


That what has me wondering about Stevo???
IP: 38.114.67.221
Posted on December 23, 2007 at 01:58:14 PM by Slamm

* Hi again Slammin' Sam,
Once again, I'll try to make sense to you.


His history is similiar to this Hindi guys, their both muscicians, both killed and abused animals, when they were younger, but Hindi, is remorseful for his acts, and then proceeds to make amends with the animals gods or whoever.

* LOL - I'm glad you find such valid and lucid similarities. Educate me - what instrument does Hindi play?

But this Stevo, he kills and abuses animals, yet gets mad at someone else for doing the same thing. And that is the definition of a true hypocrit.

* Did you just publicly admit that rodeo people regularly and habitually ABUSE ANIMALS? Is that what you meant, Slammin' Sam? Please don't make assumptions that I'm "mad" or "angry". You're not in any position to describe my frame of mind.

You see the Hindi guy doesn't really bother me, that much, that is his right to attempt to remove my rights, as long as he doesn't hurt me.  [I made this sentence bold, so you can see that within a few minutes, Slamo is going to contradict himself, located below in the next bold statement.]

* Obviously, he bothers you - and every other rodeo person AND organization - a LOT more than you state. That's why nobody will debate him on camera. That's why PRCA went whining to YouTube.

I see his point, I don't agree personally with it but I see it and he is true to his beliefs with the animals.

* His "beliefs" are proven facts, Slamm. 60 or more videotapes can't possibly be "his point". Dead calves, maimed steer, dead and injured livestock - each of these is VISIBLE.

But Steve is a hypocrit and basically, I have a problem with someone who wants to act like he is one of us (I use that term loosely), yet wants to pass judgement on rodeo as abusive, when it isn't any different and could be argued less abuse in certain areas than his own methods of dog training and his own life hobbies.

* You have now become an authority on MY life, also? Tell me Slamm - when is the last time I fired a rifle? Tell me about my "own methods" of dog training, please. I'd love to hear -your- version.

I guess, what bothers me is I hunt with guns, bows, knives and dogs. I have performed real cowboy type of work, in the form of raising cattle on our farm for my 31 years of life, riding horses since I was 3 weeks old (with my mom) and have competed in bull riding for over 11 years now. I have had dogs and used and trained them to catch and work cattle.

* Sounds like a great farm life to me. If you enjoy hunting, have at it. Is it more fun to kill with knives or dogs, from your perspective?

And I have killed and abused (Steve and Hindi's version of "abuse") animals my whole life, just like Steve.

* Is that a fact? Again, you must have intimate knowledge of my "killing". Please be kind enough to explain the last time I killed anything except a wasp in my kitchen.

But I don't tell myself that rodeo is bad and hunting is okay. Or rodeo is bad and putting 12 dogs on an a$$hole bull that is hiding in the brush is okay.

* Now THAT'S fascinating! 12 dogs to move a bull out of some brush? You could have COWBOY UPPED, stepped right in the bushes and hotshotted the bull out where you wanted him. Did the dogs BITE this bull, Slamm? Did they do any damage? TWELVE DOGS to move a bull that you should have been able to move all by yourself with your decades of livestock experience? You just got done explaining you've been a "farm person" your entire life - 31 YEARS! Tell us about that, Slamm. Was it FUN to put 12 dogs on a bull? Exciting? Lots of action? Two dogs couldn't have done the same job? I'd LOVE to hear this, Slamm.

Its all abuse, by their definition, but that is what I judged as necessary to get the job done at the time, right or wrong. There are some necessary evils in every single aspect of life.

* Almost anything can be justified somehow. You just have to be creative.

The part about Steve, that I guess, I don't get is his two faced nature and the blindly following of the very people who will next year be gunning for his very own abusive hobbies,

* Which hobbies are those, Slamm? FYI, I'm "blindly" following videos I saw with my own eyes. And I ain't blind.

and he doesn't see that his actions are helping the animal activist case and cause.

* My actions don't mean a damn thing. Far more powerful organizations have influence - I have none.

There are differences between people and within people that sometimes can't be defined. Example: I myself, don't like the use of prong collars, but for some reason I don't mind shock collars. Steve sharpens his prong collars to a point (thats what he said) and was/is a dealer for Tri-tronics shock collars.

* I definitely have some sharpened prongs. Can't remember I was an INNOTEK dealer, not Tri-Tronics? I don't mind your characterization of me, Slamm, but why not get your facts straight?

Should I start a website and public debates, dedicated to the eradicaton of his prong collar use and not his shock collar use??????

* If you feel strongly about that, YES, SIR - you should. I hope you have a lot of videos to put on your new website, so you can substantiate what you have to say.

Or should I realize that both tools can be used for good and bad, and it depends on the person and above all of that sometimes there is just going to be abuse because we are animals just like other animals or we are humans and it is part of life.

* If you feel competent, please do provide proof of my abuse to animals with either or both of these tools. I'll wait as long as it takes.

The debate of "abuse" is a very, very long and slippery slope to work through and in the end it boils down to the different or various morals or ideologies within each one of us that make up our conscious or that part of us that says hey, that is enough, that is abuse.

* Sorry, Slamm. Videos of dead 3 month old calves with snapped necks, steer which cannot stand up, horses which go down and have to be "sledded" out of an arena .... this is NOT a "long and slippery slope". This is VIDEO PROOF of rodeo.

Example:
On our farm, "beating" a dog for walking into the living room un-invited is abuse. That same "beating" for attacking a valuable horse is not.

* Wonderful illustration. You get full points for THAT exercise.

In the first instance it was abuse, in the second instance is was proper discipline that will "inform" the dog that his life will end, if it attacks that horse again.

* His life will END, Slamm? I think you just personified your approach to dog training in only a few words.

I do not feel it is right for Steve to sit in Florida and assist others in passing laws that tell me what I can and can't do. [There it is.  Just above, Slamo doesn't care - now suddenly he does!  Is this man's mind functional?  Or is he saying Steve Hindi can expose rodeo cruelty, but I can't?]

* Are you saying I'm not entitled to my opinions, Slamm? Opinions based on visible proof?

Just like I don't feel Steve would appreciate laws that would allow him to go to jail for poking holes in dogs necks and shocking them just for the sake of making them sit or stand or bite or don't.

* But in FACT, Slamm - there ARE laws. If I ever "poking holes in dogs necks", I would have been arrested. I wouldn't be "allowed" to go to jail - I would have been FORCED to go to jail. I would be a convicted felon today. I'll leave it to your expertise on MY training to provide any type of evidence that I *EVER* "poking holes in dogs necks" - if you can.

Ah, that's enough for now, I gotta go grill some Tri-tip for tonight and tomorrow's festivals.

* Anytime you're ready for a video debate, I'll help get the ball rolling. Maybe you'll confine your issues to RODEO ABUSE, PRCA RULE BREAKING, SANCTIONED CRUELTY, and we can talk about me shooting snapping turtles (in 1973) at a different time.

Steve Leigh

ps: "hypocrit" is spelled "hypocrite" - thought you'd like to know.


Rodeo Abuse
 
Slamm Wonders About Stevo
IP: 38.114.67.221
Posted on December 24, 2007 at 11:19:41 AM by Slamm

Stevo, I placed this post up here. It possibly has nothing directly to do with your latest posts in this thread, but I didn't want to clutter up Donovans dog board with a newly titled thread, and I don't have a website like you and Hindi and I just wanted people to read this:

I have spoken with many "anti's", but this deal with Stevo, is just weird. I will say this, we are usually at a rodeo and they have at least made some attempt to educate themselves on the subject. I'm not saying there isn't "abuse" in rodeo, there is video proof of it, but the proportions that Stevo and Hindi try to make out that it happens is so incredibly backward that is boogles the mind.

I try to explain this to Stevo and he wants nothing to do with it. I have been in rodeo for over 11 years and I have never seen a calf's neck get broke. I have heard of it happening, I even saw a guy do it accidentally when we were catching some cattle that got out of a pen, but it certainly isn't profitable to injury the livestock, like they try to portray it, it doesn't even make any sense????

Steve, actually, literally believes that rodeo producers or contractors want their animals to get damaged so they can collect insurance money. I am the best of friends with many stock contractor, we have raised our own bucking bulls and I have never ever heard of someone getting insurance on their livestock for rodoe and if they did it certainly wasn't in the form of some money making business venture to profit off of damaging and kill livestock. I mean, even if that was true the insurance companies would probably figure this whole racked out, after about the second claim, turned in by rodeo producers or contractors, I mean seriously, it nuts.

I know a guy who was one day away from selling or delivering a $26,000 bull named KitKat. That bull was struck by lightening standing in his pasture, the afternoon before they were to deliver the bull, guess what, no insurance and no $26,000. Steve, tried to tell me that stock contractors get insurance on $200 roping calves so they can collect the money when they are injured or killed. That is just the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. It doesn't even make any business sense??????? Why, Stevo, because the animals don't get injuried enough to warrant any need for insurance.

But they will believe whatever the AR's and some vet that doesn't know the first thing about rodeo or the business end of it, will tell them.

They have a video with the PRCA director in which Hindi has a stun gun .... a stun gun... not a cattle prod.....a human defense, stun gun. And Hindi says that rodeo contractors use stun guns on the livestock...........AH, NO!!! IF....IF they use electricity they use a cattle prod which is a legal and humane method of moving or controlling the livestock, no different than a dog's shock collar, which is fine for Stevo to use??????? HypocritE. Anyone, who has ever worked rough rodeo livestock with a hotshot or cattle prod has probably themselves been shocked by one, sure I don't walk around zapping myself, but it sure doesn't cause any harm or damage to the animal.........same as a dog's shock collar, hypocritE.

When a mean horse that either can't or doesn't want to be "broken" or trained into a "civilized" animal that can get along with humans and be a trail horse or simple pet for some family. When that mean horse comes through the sale ring and the only option for it is the slaughter house to be made into dog food for Stevo's dogs. The slaughter house purchaser is bidding on that horse, but guess who else is bidding on that horse? Steve or Hindi, are they there providing that horse with an alternative life or career.........NO, they aren't out to save animals.

It is a rodeo contractor who sees a horse that has a chance or shot at using his skills and bucking in a rodeo, for as long as the horse wants to perform, and that can be up to 20 or more years. It may be a week, but its more of a shot at life than Stevo or Hindi will provide for them.

Where do you think a lot of mean, mean bulls go that farmers/ranchers can't or don't know how to control..........rodeo.

Maybe, we should start unloading these "uncivilized" bulls and broncs/horses off at Stevo and Hindi's doorstep, maybe they would like to take their own money and pay for food and shelter and pens and medication and vet bills for these literally thousands and thousands if not millions of animals.

But what do Stevo and Hindi think we should do with these animals???

Well, Stevo, doesn't have a clue. He admitted doesn't know the first thing about large livestock, and he certainly doesn't know beans about how to handle them.

Hindi, probably, thinks we should eventually just turn everything loose to live on the "movie" set of a Walt-Disney cartoon.

No, they aren't trying to help animals. I don't see them feeding anything with there money and sweat. When the animals do at times get hurt, they cheer, inside they are happy, because they know thats another video they get to promote the end of a way of life for both the humans and animals that live it.

They don't video the stock contractor who raised that bull or horse for years, who has fed and cared for that "animal athlete", who has told stories about, who has bragged about, who has built a relationship, not that difference than a dog owner has with their own dog or pet.

No they don't video that. They don't video the whole, animal medical industry that has started up to provide X-rays and expert medical help and rehabilitation, to rodeo animal athletes. They don't video or help the stock contractor that drives all day and all night (New York to Oklahoma) to have expert medical exams and advice on a bull that injures his leg at a bull riding in Elmira, NY.

No you won't see Stevo and Hindi doing any of that. They just spend there time promoting the small percentage of accidents or abuse, whichever it is, sometimes it IS accidents and sometimes it truly IS abuse, but never the less, it is a small amount. No different than in any other industry, there is good and bad. They spend their time and money trying to stop familys from making a living, they spend there time and money trying to tarnish the reputation and name of the very people who ARE feeding and caring for the animals that Hindi and Stevo wouldn't have a clue on what to do with, period.

But at the end of the day, the fact remains the same, thousands and thousands if not one million or more animals, when you add up all the calf roping horses, barrel racing horses, steer roping horses, bucking bulls, bucking horses, calves and steers........in addition to all the breeding stock and young stock getting trained for these various events. Damn near every animal would be dog food or glue or non-existent if it were not for RODEO, not Stevo or Hindi or any other PETA types or Animal Rights group.......RODEO.

That is just, my opinion,

Sam
 
Re(1): Slamm Wonders About Stevo
IP: 72.91.88.16
Posted on December 24, 2007 at 01:36:36 PM by Steve Leigh


PART I of II
Slamm Wonders About Stevo
IP: 38.114.67.221
Posted on December 24, 2007 at 11:19:41 AM by Slamm

* Hi again, Slammin Sam,

Stevo, I placed this post up here. It possibly has nothing directly to do with your latest posts in this thread, but I didn't want to clutter up Donovans dog board with a newly titled thread, and I don't have a website like you and Hindi and I just wanted people to read this:

* I think you -should- have a website.

I have spoken with many "anti's", but this deal with Stevo, is just weird. I will say this, we are usually at a rodeo and they have at least made some attempt to educate themselves on the subject. I'm not saying there isn't "abuse" in rodeo, there is video proof of it, but the proportions that Stevo and Hindi try to make out that it happens is so incredibly backward that is boogles the mind.

* Thank you for admitting again that there IS ABUSE in rodeo. The 60+ videos agree with your statement.

I try to explain this to Stevo and he wants nothing to do with it. I have been in rodeo for over 11 years and I have never seen a calf's neck get broke.

* Watch some of Hindi's videos and see it happen repeatedly. Then consider this: Hindi and his "enormous staff" of possibly 3-4 people - have collected dozens and dozens of rodeo abuse videos. Since they can't all be at each rodeo, they've only collected a SMALL SAMPLE of what REALLY goes on at rodeo events. If that's over your head, consider this: you and 4 other people cannot go to EVERY dog competition in the US EVERY week, in EVERY state. It's just not possible to do it. So that leaves us to consider: does Hindi have some magical powers that mystically bring him to JUST the rodeos where constant abuse occurs, right in front of judges who do nothing? How would he know - in advance - that there will be abuse which he can capture on video? Why and how did he capture footage of illegal shocking and abuse at the Las Vegas NFR rodeo, which I believe was just last week?

I have heard of it happening, I even saw a guy do it accidentally when we were catching some cattle that got out of a pen, but it certainly isn't profitable to injury the livestock, like they try to portray it, it doesn't even make any sense????

* Slamm, there's a world of difference between putting on a show for a crowd at a rodeo, and moving livestock around. "On the farm", there's no clock, no cash rewards for points, no trophies, no glory.

Steve, actually, literally believes that rodeo producers or contractors want their animals to get damaged so they can collect insurance money.

* You really should stop putting words in my mouth. I clearly explained how a livestock owner -can- profit from a dead animal.

I am the best of friends with many stock contractor, we have raised our own bucking bulls and I have never ever heard of someone getting insurance on their livestock for rodoe and if they did it certainly wasn't in the form of some money making business venture to profit off of damaging and kill livestock.

* I never said that was the end goal, Slamm.

I mean, even if that was true the insurance companies would probably figure this whole racked out, after about the second claim, turned in by rodeo producers or contractors, I mean seriously, it nuts.

* No, Slammin Sam - it's not "nuts" at all. If a calf gets its back broken, there's the possibility of an insurance payout. If the owner decides to KILL the calf, the money is lost. Read what I wrote, maybe just a bit more carefully.

I know a guy who was one day away from selling or delivering a $26,000 bull named KitKat. That bull was struck by lightening standing in his pasture, the afternoon before they were to deliver the bull, guess what, no insurance and no $26,000.

* I know of a guy who wrecked his car. He had minimal insurance on it. Guess what? He didn't get a new car. I also know of a guy who had his guitar stolen. No insurance. Guess what? No guitar.

Steve, tried to tell me that stock contractors get insurance on $200 roping calves so they can collect the money when they are injured or killed.

* And you're trying to say it doesn't happen, Slamm? Incidentally, can you document the $200 value that you refer to? Or is it $500? Or $1200?

That is just the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. It doesn't even make any business sense???????

* That depends on whose bank account you look at!

Why, Stevo, because the animals don't get injuried enough to warrant any need for insurance.

* Then why IS there rodeo livestock insurance, Slamm? Since you claim it's not needed, then why do contractors PAY for it?
(part 2 follows)

Re(1): Slamm Wonders About Stevo
IP: 72.91.88.16
Posted on December 24, 2007 at 01:38:12 PM by Steve Leigh


Part 2 of 2
But they will believe whatever the AR's and some vet that doesn't know the first thing about rodeo or the business end of it, will tell them.

* Or - like me - we'll go watch the 60+ videos and look VERY carefully.

They have a video with the PRCA director in which Hindi has a stun gun .... a stun gun... not a cattle prod.....a human defense, stun gun.

* He challenged Doug (the vet hero of PRCA) to one touch with it.

And Hindi says that rodeo contractors use stun guns on the livestock...........AH, NO!!!

* Slamm - provide a link to that statement please.

IF....IF they use electricity they use a cattle prod which is a legal and humane method of moving or controlling the livestock,

* And it's prohibited in the stalls, according to PRCA's OWN RULE BOOK. So why have I seen literally 100+ animals being shocked IN THE STALLS *WITH* A JUDGE STANDING THERE WATCHING?

no different than a dog's shock collar, which is fine for Stevo to use??????? HypocritE.

*Far, FAR different, Slamm. Maybe you just don't get it? Dog trainers NORMALLY use electricity at very low levels. I loved having my wife use my Tri-Tronics at level 2 on my neck and shoulders. It was like going to the chiropractor - for free!

Anyone, who has ever worked rough rodeo livestock with a hotshot or cattle prod has probably themselves been shocked by one, sure I don't walk around zapping myself, but it sure doesn't cause any harm or damage to the animal.........same as a dog's shock collar, hypocritE.

* Wrong again, Slamm. How about this? You take your hot shot, and video one of *your own pitbulls* with a 1-2 second shock. Not an electric collar, Slamm - a hot shot. Let's see if there's a difference. You can put the video online.

When a mean horse that either can't or doesn't want to be "broken" or trained into a "civilized" animal that can get along with humans and be a trail horse or simple pet for some family.

* Relax, Slamm. That wasn't even a sentence.

When that mean horse comes through the sale ring and the only option for it is the slaughter house to be made into dog food for Stevo's dogs.

* Slamm, that wasn't a sentence either. FYI, there is currently only one horse slaughter house in the US. It is in danger of being shut down.

The slaughter house purchaser is bidding on that horse, but guess who else is bidding on that horse? Steve or Hindi, are they there providing that horse with an alternative life or career.........NO, they aren't out to save animals.

* Now use your smarts, OK? My Rodeo page says NOTHING about "out to save animals". You just LOVE changing the subject don't you? But I've already allowed you you to "baffle me into blindness", and it won't work anymore.

It is a rodeo contractor who sees a horse that has a chance or shot at using his skills and bucking in a rodeo, for as long as the horse wants to perform, and that can be up to 20 or more years. It may be a week, but its more of a shot at life than Stevo or Hindi will provide for them.

* That's right! I don't own a ranch, don't want to own livestock, and the rodeo contractor is looking at CASH FOR HIS POCKET. That's why he bids on the livestock.

Where do you think a lot of mean, mean bulls go that farmers/ranchers can't or don't know how to control..........rodeo.

* Sure - as long as they can MAKE CASH FOR THE CONTRACTOR. Otherwise, they're a waste of money and energy.

Maybe, we should start unloading these "uncivilized" bulls and broncs/horses off at Stevo and Hindi's doorstep, maybe they would like to take their own money and pay for food and shelter and pens and medication and vet bills for these literally thousands and thousands if not millions of animals.

* Are you ready to provide valid, provable statistics for the "thousands" or "millions" of animals?

But what do Stevo and Hindi think we should do with these animals???

* Leave them alone in a pasture.

Well, Stevo, doesn't have a clue. He admitted doesn't know the first thing about large livestock, and he certainly doesn't know beans about how to handle them.

* Slamo - I'm sure you don't mind me calling you that, since you named me "Stevo" - what do I *NEED* to know? Those videos don't lie.

Hindi, probably, thinks we should eventually just turn everything loose to live on the "movie" set of a Walt-Disney cartoon.

* Slamo, just ask Hindi. Maybe you two can have a videotaped debate, too. Ready to "Cowboy Up!"?

No, they aren't trying to help animals. I don't see them feeding anything with there money and sweat. When the animals do at times get hurt, they cheer, inside they are happy, because they know thats another video they get to promote the end of a way of life for both the humans and animals that live it.

* Now Slamo - YOU are telling ME that I cheer and I'm happy about rodeo abuse, death, cruelty, and blatant rule breaking? You're making me laugh.

They don't video the stock contractor who raised that bull or horse for years, who has fed and cared for that "animal athlete", who has told stories about, who has bragged about, who has built a relationship, not that difference than a dog owner has with their own dog or pet.

* Nope. And no matter how hard you try, you're not baffling me. The stock contractors do what they choose to do - for CASH MONEY.

No they don't video that. They don't video the whole, animal medical industry that has started up to provide X-rays and expert medical help and rehabilitation, to rodeo animal athletes. They don't video or help the stock contractor that drives all day and all night (New York to Oklahoma) to have expert medical exams and advice on a bull that injures his leg at a bull riding in Elmira, NY.

* LOL! Slamo - are you saying there's no Xray or veterinary medical exams in Elmira, NY? Just in Oklahoma?

No you won't see Stevo and Hindi doing any of that. They just spend there time promoting the small percentage of accidents or abuse, whichever it is, sometimes it IS accidents and sometimes it truly IS abuse, but never the less, it is a small amount.

* Only because YOU say so, Slamo. The videos say something completely different.

No different than in any other industry, there is good and bad. They spend their time and money trying to stop familys from making a living, they spend there time and money trying to tarnish the reputation and name of the very people who ARE feeding and caring for the animals that Hindi and Stevo wouldn't have a clue on what to do with, period.

* You keep on evading the issues, Slamo. By now, you're getting famous for it.

But at the end of the day, the fact remains the same, thousands and thousands if not one million or more animals, when you add up all the calf roping horses, barrel racing horses, steer roping horses, bucking bulls, bucking horses, calves and steers........in addition to all the breeding stock and young stock getting trained for these various events. Damn near every animal would be dog food or glue or non-existent if it were not for RODEO, not Stevo or Hindi or any other PETA types or Animal Rights group.......RODEO.
That is just, my opinion,

* Thanks Slamo - you sure have a lot to say. But 98% is nothing but "baffle 'em into blindness". So you want to debate RODEO ABUSE, CRUELTY, PRCA RULE BREAKING, DEAD CALVES, MAIMED LIVESTOCK? Steve Hindi would love to hear YOUR story. I gave you his phone number. "Cowboy Up!" and call him.

Steve Leigh

Re(1): Steve, your a lost cause.
IP: 71.251.113.209
Posted on December 24, 2007 at 01:02:58 AM by Steve Leigh


Slammin Sam,
Once MORE I will try to reply to you.

Steve, your a lost cause.
IP: 38.114.67.221
Posted on December 23, 2007 at 10:53:23 PM by Slamm

Ok, I'm a lost cause. Is that because I don't AGREE with you, or because I CHALLENGE you?

As I suspected would happen, theres nothing left of you, except the bubbles floating to the surface.

That's your opinion.

The only reason I decided to try to discuss this was if you really knew anything about rodeo you would see its no different than anything dog related, and this being a dog related board and I have read your writting for 3ish years now (I think, around then) I was just trying to let some knowledge to you because it was quite obvious by the things you were alleging or saying about rodeo you are were completely ignorant of rodeo.

Really? Am I blind too?

Out of two conversations you have done nothing but prove to me and also to you that you know completely nothing about rodeo, except for 60 videos that you have watched. Some of which or a percentage of which, depict a human shocking a bull or horse, which to these organizations and to you is considered abuse, when it is okay to tazer a human or use a shock collar on a dog.

Well, Slammin Sam - shock collars are NOT prohibited by the rules of your organization (PRCA) - Tasers are used by law enforcement. Your comparison isn't WEAK - it's non-existant. BUT CHANGE THE SUBJECT, SLAMM - talk about ANYTHNG - cops, dog training, or even whales - and AVOID rodeo abuse and cruelty. AVOID the subject and try to baffle me with blindness. IT WON'T work, Slamm.

I have repeated asked you to just watch a rodeo or bullride on TV and show yourself that the "abuse" or accidents that happen are a small percentage of rodeo, nobody likes it and nobody wants it to happen. There isn't anyone who says or thinks, Well, now if we can just break three steer necks tonight or use a cattle prod twice on a bull, Boy then we will be making some money.........

Slamm - if you're trying to put words in my mouth - QUIT. I'm competent - I can say what I have to say.

but that is what the animal activists try to get everone to think or believe and it is obvious at this point, that is what you want to believe.

I believe what I SEE, Slamm. Make those videos NOT SHOW what they show.

Its akin to those ignorant of proper dog training or bitework thinking that everyone beats the dog into a corner and then shocks them off the bite repeatedly. Sure there are people who do that but not everyone is doing that. But if that is what you want to believe then, that is your right.

LOL - I've had a standing offer for over 15 years that I can train outs with NO corrections whatsoever. I put $5000. on the line - no takers. Slamm - don't tell me about DOG training. You're WAY too far over your head here. I'm a former professional dog trainer - YOU are a cowboy.

Further banter/debate whatever this is, is completely pointless.

That's right Slamm. The debate - on VIDEO - is far too much for a cowboy like you to handle. You just will NOT "cowboy up".

BUT WE KNEW THAT, DIDN'T WE?

Hindi and I are waiting for your PUBLIC VIDEOTAPED statements.

Cowboy Up, Slammin Sam.

Steve Leigh



BE A MAN - Ride a Bull
As you can see, Slammin Sam - Slamo - has no shortage of words.  He's pretty good at "change the subject" and "baffle 'em into blindness!", but that only works once or twice.  Slamo used up his quota.

Just another exciting chapter in the life of a true RODEO COWBOY.

RUN THE OTHER WAY WHEN DEBATE TIME COMES

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